06.27
Fresh off the boat, specifications subject to change without notice, don't expect to buy one until around Interbike, say hello to the Tallboy.
There are probably hundreds of good reasons to maintain some degree of secrecy during the development of a bike. In the past, we’ve always cleaved pretty tight to the “keep it secret until fully baked” line, and have had mixed degrees of success with that approach. The problem is, that when you develop your own prototypes in-house, and ride test the things right out your door, and have to ride through urban neighborhoods to hit well known trails where people recognize you from the barbecue last weekend while undertaking said testing, well, it is not that easy to keep secrets.
Especially since mountain bikers are generally over-curious to the point of obsessive about new pieces of geekware, and tend as a group to be toting technology in the forms of cell phone cams and/or mini video recorders. Which they then go straight home and upload onto mtbr.com. Ahhh, technology.
Anyway, we decided when we began the lead up to the final development for this new 29″ bike (yes, we really are going to call it the Tallboy. Here’s hoping some people have a sense of humor) that we’d play with a slightly more open hand. But even still, we were leery of showing off the aluminum prototype mules we were riding around because for the most part our prototype mules are butt ugly. They exist to get the suspension characteristics right and the geometry where we want it and that’s about it. Usually, they are fabricated out of whatever tubes or hacked up old frames we have lying around. The upside to such drab and awkward prototypes is that people usually don’t pay them much mind because they just look like dull grey beaters. The downside, aside from the heinous real world expense of each frame, is that people who know to look for prototypes can spot them a mile away. Which then means we have to cobb up fake Cannondale or Specialized decals to throw people off the scent.
Anyway, by this spring, after many many months of riding other bikes, comparing them, fabricating our own mules, revising them, comparing them to each other, revising again, the mules were about where we wanted them. They rode nicely, handled well, and the suspension behavior was right where most of us wanted it to be. Cockpit sizing and ergonomics were dialed, and it was time to begin the next phase, which would ultimately lead to something we could take pictures of.
That said, we’re still a long way from final production, and there could be many small tweaks between now and then. So, don’t be too hasty in the rush to judgement. Still, for the most part, the following photos are going to be pretty damn close to what hits the showrooms in the fall:
100mm VPP travel (apologies to the peeps who already read this when it said 105mm. It was late, I had been drinking, and you'll have to trust us when we say that 5mm isn't going to make or break the suspension performance here), carbon fiber, target weight "very light", missing the super-sano little stainless steel chainstay protector plate, some graphic tweaks still to come, this is the very first sample frame. Showed up here friday mid-day.
Tallboy, like the can.
Top tube, top view. Tapered head tube - 1 1/8" inset upper headset bearing, 1.5" lower. Whole lotta swoop going on in that top tube...
Finally, all built up. Still missing that sweet little steel plate behind the chainrings. Pedals added just to make certain readers grind their teeth with frustration over misplaced aesthetics. Remember, this is just a photo.
Just for the sake of perspective, here's a special gritty cell phone quality pic (all these images brought to you by the mack daddy photographic precision of an iphone wielded by someone who'd had three cups of coffee that morning) of the last rev mule standing next to the shiny new kid. Note how we've left it behind the new bike to shroud the true fugliness...
And there she be. Things to note:
Carbon fiber frame
Next generation VPP suspension (with grease fittings and angular contact bearings and carbon fiber upper link and aluminum axles and all that good stuff)
Should be really light
And really stiff
Probably available in orange
And maybe another color too
Since it’s the weekend and I don’t have the geo charts on the laptop I’m typing on, and since I’ve go to go move house now, all the juicy numbers will have to wait.
In parting, and speaking of new, we leave you with the disturbing evidence that Mark Weir, everyone’s favorite multi-discipline hard man, and his long suffering better half Suzy successfully spawned last Tuesday. Meet Gus. Congratulations to all three. Here’s looking forward to a life of big climbs, smack talk, skinsuit wearing, and tobacco chewing. Since Male pattern baldness comes from the mother’s genetics, here’s hoping Gus’ll be spared that:
There has been much discussion regarding the prominence of Gus's scrotum since his world debut. Might be a bit early to jump to conclusions in that regard. However, the fact that he has hair on his head is reason for celebration...
Tallboy is the best possible name for a 29er.
Q: What size shock does the Tallboy use?
[...] an aluminum version will be offered, or what the retail price might be. This picture is courtesy of Santa Cruz’s blog, where you can see more images of this new [...]
Looks great!
I want this one!
But I’m just 5.61 feet tall.
Can I ride it?
How can you come out with such a sweet bike in a recession your going to make us all broke
Holy shit, those testicles a huge. Weir junior is going to be a machine.
I’m incredibly happy and thankful that you decided to give us a sneak peak of this beauty. I will be equally pleased to see a geometry chart. Size M or L in pic? Optimized for 100mm fork?
Two things that made me go hmmmmm – “suspension behavior was right where most of us wanted it to be”… I guess that means that some testers wanted the suspension to behave differently and everyone was not in agreement?
Also, “Should be really light” – why not “WILL be very light”? I know it’s still not finalized, and there are varying opinions about what light is, but since the XCc is around 4.5 and the LTc is 5.6 and built extra burly, I’m hoping this will be the same or less even with more material. Thanks again.
Any chances on 5″ version mated to 120mm fork like Fox or Reba? Light 12mm maxle axle one the rear to help stiffness blossom?
Just my 0.02$
stiffnes doesn’t blossom, mister copperfield. spec for this bike would include your choice of fork travel but will probably only be offered with a thru-axle. we will not be doing a 12mm rear anytime soon, unless you go do the testing to prove that it actually makes the rear end stiffer.
Very nice!
I cant’ wait to try one !
You will sell a lot of tallboys!
As a longtime SC VPP fan and a current 29er convert, this hits the nail on the head for me. Just a few additional items on my wish list:
1. The effective top tube on the medium frame should be in line with standard 29er practice (23.5-24) vs. 22.5 on my Blur LT.
2. It should be strong enough to take 120mm TA forks(a Reba with Maxle Lite would be perfect).
3. Price it fairly (i.e., no more than the Blur carbons).
4. Keep the orange!
Dreamed of the day SC launched a 29er, and you guys are the best, but there’s no way I’ll ever be able to afford carbon, and I’m skeptical about strength, especially in the XL/XXL size I’d need. And, btw I’d be deliriously happy with a “Butt Ugly” aluminum prototype mule. Mules are better in the tough stuff anyways, when’s the last time you ever heard of a pack stallion?
Tell me someday you’ll have an aluminum beast. And better yet, a single-pivot Superlight-like 29er aluminum mule….
as the saying goes, “you can please some people all the time…” the difference in price between our carbon and aluminum frames is a few hundred dollars. understood, that might make or break a deal for some people, but we went with carbon for some very good reasons – just like with the blur xc. first, strength and stiffness – while many are skeptical of carbon fiber (even if they use carbon fiber handlebars without a second thought anymore), the ability to make a frame that can withstand a much greater fatigue cycle, have much greater yield strength, and far superior frame stiffness when using carbon fiber, compared to aluminum, is pretty awesome. second, strength to weight – to achieve that superior strength while at the same time reducing weight by about 25% is a no-brainer. to get an aluminum frame that has close to the same stiffness, without even getting into the strength aspect of things, instead of a 5 pound frame you’d be looking at an 8 or 9 pound frame, and it’d still cost close to two grand. third, ride characteristics – our carbon frames ride real nice, period.
so, no. no aluminum beast planned. and, trust me on this, the mules were fugly. that might be fine for you, but there’s no way in hell they are something we’d want to see on a showroom floor. we make them fugly for a reason. single pivot? maybe, but don’t hold your breath. for our first foray into this market, we had to do something that was a little different, since there are already plenty of single pivot 29ers, and plenty of heavy, flexy, aluminum 29ers, out there already.
I for one am very happy to see you build the Tallboy out of Carbon. I am a big and tall guy, and I have a carbon FS mountain bike. It is awesome and has taken a lot of abuse. I also have a 29er hardtail in aluminum, and while it is nice to ride the 29 inch wheels, I sure wish I had the suspension to go with it. So, to me, the Tallboy could turn out to be the perfect bike. Light, Strong, beautiful, and with a 1st rate suspension. I plan to buy one ASAP. I love the Orange, but, I wonder what other colors it may come in. I am also very interested to know more about the geometry and of course the price. Your timing for a FS 29er in carbon is good, but, of course, there are others coming out about the same time as well. it should be very interesting to see how things progress. I for one, am new to 29ers, but, wow, I am indeed impressed. I just posted my best time on a tough climb. This is all the more impressive consider this is the worst time of year to climb this trail, considering this is when the trail turns into piles of sand. the 29er just floated thru it going up and down. Awesome. I wish i hadn’t waited so long to jump onto a 29er.
>As a longtime SC VPP fan and a current 29er convert, this hits the nail on the head for >me. Just a few additional items on my wish list:
>1. The effective top tube on the medium frame should be in line with standard 29er >practice (23.5-24) vs. 22.5 on my Blur LT.
Nope, same top tube length sizing on this VPP Blur 29. It is roughly 21.6 med. and 22.7 on the large. But large rides very well for us long torsoed guys usually medium riding framed guys.
It gives you another option to most super long top tubed 29ers. There is some things you can do with custom fitting with the stem length (that most people don’t really get), that you can’t often do with longer top tubed 29ers if you are a short torsoed fella.
Again, so what is the shock size ????????????????????????????????????????????
not quite sure why you were quoting top tube dogma, but to answer your question, shock length is 6.5×1.5, same as the blur xc. that info, along with lots of other good stuff, can easily be accessed via our website, and in this particular instance, the tallboy f.a.q:
http://santacruzbicycles.com/tallboy/index.php?faq=1&ID=0244
Only quoting dogma to hopefully overcome some of the marketing hype. Allot of guys stay permantely confused by marketing specialist about the benifits of fitting ergonomics. Top tube lengths is an important factor in considering when fitting a bike around the person. Always has been alway will be… in finding the samadhi of a perfect fit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samadhi
All things considered (and despite those that preach that our bike is so well balanced you don’t even need to worry about tt length or other fit issues and is perfect for everyone); I still will look at all fitting factors together.
Yea, I had missed the faqs earlier, wow thanks…. ;D teehee
I am glad at least SC is not saying boo hoo to people that may want to try another shock on the bike like many bike manufacters do.
The bike rides really well and I think the actual engineers that designed it did a wonderful service to use. Even if they did miss a key transitional marketing segment by not calling it Blur 29. Tallboy is allot easier to search on.
Sorry english not first language. !
imho think the point missed in all this back and forth is simply that bike co’s don’t want people to concentrate on top tube lengths because they really sometimes won’t get the big picture.
However; after doing years of custom fits; I have seen many problems by not publishing real tt lengths when you don’t have the inventory to actually have the frame someone wants to buy in size in stock. Btw, as a Santa Cruz and Intense dealer, you know that the tts run short.
What is effective ? Dogma ? Propaganda ? Well, it is at a default height. So, what is that at any given user’s saddle height ? Some would say one possible way to figure that is with software, seat/head angles, stack height; “actual” tt lengths along with seat tube length. Then you can get a user’s range of effective cockpit.
Anyway, only a small number of bike companies publish real top tube lengths along with what they deem effective.
Another question, why not make a small ? Well cost $$$ for the molds and very few buyers, but there is a market, look at how many smalls niner bikes sells.
-lastly, name marketing: Tallboy instead of what it looks like, “namely” a Blur 29. Well marketing to the larger crowd who most benefit from big wheels.
Still, having had several 5′6″ to 5′11″ range Blur riders interested in 29ers that when told why not look at this bike; they said no, they wanted something like a Blur 29 or a 29er for not so Tallboys cause they did not want to ride a clunky big boy bike.
So Blur 29 is not too bad a name for this wonderful bike ….for the “half pints.”